Wednesday, November 5, 2008

Who Are Angels Gathering at the End of the Tribulation if Only the Wicked Are Left After the Rapture?

Question: I am having difficulty with verse 31 of Matthew 24 since if the righteous are raptured prior to the tribulation, who are the elect that the angels are gathering at the end of the tribulation if only the wicked were left after the rapture?


Answer: Jesus answers that question for us in Matthew 13:37-43 which corresponds directly with Matthew 24:31.

It is important here to distinguish between the Children of the Resurrection and the Children of the Kingdom (Matthew 13:38, Luke 20:36).

The Children of the Kingdom are not the resurrected and caught out ones who Jesus called the Children of the Resurrection (Luke 20:35-36).

The Children of the Kingdom will marry and give birth during the millenium. Some will even die (Isaiah 65:20-23).

The Children of the Resurrection will neither marry nor give in marriage but will be as the angels who cannot die (Matthew 22:30,Luke 20:35-36).

The Children of the Resurrection will not need to have angels gather them because they will be changed in a moment--their bodies will become just like Christ's resurrected body. They will become as the angels when their bodies are raised/changed--no angelic gathering will be needed for them (Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:35-36).

The Children of the Kingdom will need angels to gather them because their bodies will not be changed to become like Christ's resurrected body or like the angels. They will enter the millenium in their mortal condition (Isaiah 65:20-23).

Below is a link to more information concerning the Pre-tribulational Resurrection and Catching Up of believers.

http://hungryheartsministries.com/id39.html


http://lulu.com/JocelynAndersen
Books by Jocelyn Andersen

3 comments:

Valano72 said...

THE RAPTURE: PRE TRIBULATION OR POST?

Yeshua has already come to this earth once, and He brought salvation with Him. Yes, I confess that Yeshua is the Messiah and my sins were blotted out with His own blood. We all have the same choice; He has the power and the authority. His blood can either blot our sins or our name.

Throughout the centuries those who believe in Yeshua have been looking for His Second Coming and something called the Great Tribulation. Now here is the big question: Will some be raptured out of the Earth to escape the dreaded Tribulation or will everyone go through it, including the saints? A great controversy shadows this debated life and death issue and it comes with two conflicting answers.

Most Christians believe in the “pre-tribulation rapture” as the undisputed truth. Even though slightly different versions co-exist, the majority accepts something like the following: The rapture can occur in any year, on any day, or at any moment. Suddenly, and without warning, Gabriel sounds a trumpet blast, Jesus gathers all the believers (called the Church) who are then caught up out of the earth just before hell breaks loose in the form of a seven-year tribulation. Those who have not accepted Christ, along with the evildoers are doomed to remain on the earth and experience this wrath filled tribulation first hand. At or near it’s conclusion Jesus comes again to defeat the surviving evildoers at a battle called Armageddon. In the pre-trib rapture scenario it can be debated this theory clearly suggests the Messiah returns not once but twice: First at the secret rapture and then again at Armageddon!

Other believers, mostly Messianic, say the scripture teaches the Messiah’s return will be immediately after tribulation at the sound of the Seventh Trumpet Angel of Revelation (The Last Trump) that begins the “Feast of Trumpets” better known as the Day of the Lord.

Everyone has an opinion, but the thing that really matters is what God says. The scripture speaks for itself better than we can. We only need to filter out our previous religious programming so we can clearly what the Word of God really says. Any comment in BLUE is to bring attention to what the Scripture actually says, rather than what we may have been told it says. Below are selections from Moses, Yeshua Himself, John in Revelation, and Paul.


WHAT MOSES WRITES

We begin with Moses as he records in the following verse in the Torah. He is addressing all Israel who has journeyed the last forty years (grafted or not), and a future generation yet to come. Obviously Moses says there will be those living in the latter days that will experience tribulation, but who?


Deuteronomy 4:3 -31 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, (The last generation) if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God [is] a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. (This document obviously pre-dates the so-called “church fathers.” The covenant God swore to remember was with the fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God cannot lie; therefore the church cannot take Israel’s place.)



The next section contains the words of our Lord Himself as He expounds very plainly about this time of trouble. If any one knows the who, what, and when, He does.


WHAT YESHUA SAYS


Yeshua Himself gives the Parable of the Harvest; it is about the end times. As you read the parable and comments, look for clues of the pre-tribulation rapture.


Matthew 13:24-30 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed (children of the kingdom) in his field; (world, creation) But while men slept, his enemy (Satan) came and sowed tares (evil seed) among the wheat (good seed), and went his way. But when the blade (the first fruits from creation, the beginning) was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. (Evil seed that was sown after God had planted the good seed.) So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this (Satan). The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them (The tares) up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them (the wheat is NOT to be disturbed). Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them: (The Word of God says, the evil are gathered FIRST, not one single good seed has been up rooted or gathered AT ANY TIME. The righteous were not gathered until after the tares were cast into the fire; then comes the wheat.) but gather the wheat into my barn.


There is NOT one hint of good seed being taken at any time until after the evil are taken and cast into the fire! Yeshua puts all the good seed and all the evil seed at the same place and at the same time. No pre-trib rapture was taught here and the righteous (good seed) was not removed. It was the tares that were removed first and burned. Here is the second witness to the Parable of the Harvest.



Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Notice His Kingdom is already here. It takes 3 things to make His kingdom: 1. The King, 2. The King’s Subjects, and 3. The Land. Now, if the angels must gather out of His kingdom only things that offend, it means there MUST be those present who do not offend.) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (This is a second witness to the parable of the Harvest; the subjects were not raptured out of the land; it is the offenders who are gathered and cast into the fire. The righteous were NOT the ones removed.)


Next, in His own words, Yeshua compares His coming as in the days of Noah. Please pay close attention to exactly what Yeshua says here; there are no idle words in the Scriptures of Truth:


Matthew 24:37-41 But as the days of Noe [were], (Noah experienced and survived the flood judgment) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Rather that being raptured, Noah and his sons prepared a place of safety.) For as in the days that were before the flood they (the wicked) were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (The place of safety.), And KNEW NOT until the flood came, and took them (the wicked) all away; (Notice that Noah was in the ark SEVEN full DAYS before the rain started and the Messiah said “ THEY ” (the wicked) “ KNEW NOT ” (understood not) “ UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME ” and took them all away. Yeshua did NOT mention one syllable about any repenting during those seven days; but on the contrary, Yeshua said the wicked had NO Understanding until the flood (judgment) was already upon them.) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Yeshua then repeated word for word that His coming is like the days of Noah, returning to a wicked generation who will not understand even up unto the Day of the Lord (judgment). Think about it, if the wicked of our generation were to understand or repent, would the nations still gather at Jezreel? No.) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (This is the major quote used by the pre-tribulation rapture theorists and they’ve got it backward. Who was taken and who was left in Noah’s day? The evil ones / tares were taken. Noah was left! The righteous were the ones who were left!) Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Proverbs 10:30, says, “the righteous will never be removed.” So who was removed? The evil ones, the tares, Noah dwelt safely in the ark that he and his sons prepared.


We find more selections given by Yeshua that pertain directly to the Great Tribulation and His Second Coming.



Matthew 24: 13-21 But he that shall endure unto the end, (end of tribulation) the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Yeshua goes straight from the Gospel preached, to the tribulation, continuing immediately to Yeshua’s introduction of an abomination that occurs. No rapture even mentioned here.), When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, (This is the abomination that happens in the midst of the seven years (Daniel Chap.9), which triggers the last 42 months called the Great Tribulation. Yeshua says WHEN WE see it; not IF we see it; NO IDLE WORDS.) stand in the holy place (the temple mount), (whoso readeth, let him understand;) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day; For THEN shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (The Great Tribulation starts HERE in the midst of the 7 years, and again, there has been absolutely NO mention or even a hint of any form of rapture, only fleeing.)


Now we will look at other selections where Yeshua is telling us that His coming is immediately after tribulation. There can only be ONE Second Coming and He has never mentioned returning before tribulation at any time in any verse.


Matthew 24:29 –30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (The days of Tribulation are now OVER, every word following this point is unmistakably POST-TRIB.) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then (after tribulation) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then (after tribulation) shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (There can only be ONE SECOND COMING. Yeshua says it Himself: after tribulation)


Mark 13:11- 23 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up (in tribulation), take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. (It is written that Holy men of old spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. If the Holy Ghost speaks through someone, they are certainly one of Yeshua’s. Why wasn’t he raptured? Answer: NO pre-trib rapture.) Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against [their] parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: (Here is someone who is on the earth during tribulation that is hated because of his relationship with the Messiah. Why wasn’t he raptured? Answer: NO pre-trib rapture) but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (The end of tribulation) But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (This same person who is hated for his relationship with the Messiah sees the abomination in the midst of the Seven Year Tribulation. Why wasn’t he raptured? Answer: NO pre-trib rapture.) (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter [therein], to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. (If you are fleeing you are still here) For [in] those days shall be affliction (tribulation), such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. (According to the Lord Himself, we see here that the elect are still on the earth. If they are, rest assured all the other saints are as well.), And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here [is] Christ; or, lo, [he is] there; believe [him] not: (Think about it, in the pre-trib scenario, Yeshua has already come and gone with all the raptured saints, all that’s left on the earth are the evil ones. Then why would anybody be looking for Christ who has obviously already come and gone?) For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect. (Notice again that the elect, God’s people are still here) But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. (Yeshua has warned us)


John 17:15-16 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, (Is this not the same as to say: I pray that they stay in the world?) but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


WHAT PAUL SAYS ABOUT WHO AND WHEN

The next scripture is taken from Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians about the Lord coming back. He gives us the time of the Lord’s return and what the signal will be. In this letter, Paul also teaches concerning the brethren in Christ who have died are but asleep and will be the first to be resurrected and raptured when the Lord returns. All we need to do is read to order of events:


Thessalonians-1 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (The resurrection) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (Here are those who are alive and remain and those who are STILL asleep. They have NOT been resurrected. Therefore, NONE have been raptured or resurrected yet since it is the dead in Christ who will rise FIRST.) For the Lord himself shall descend (immediately after tribulation Matthew 24:29–30) from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God (the LAST trump *See Corinthians-1 15:51-53 Cross Reference below): and the dead in Christ shall rise first: THEN we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (Comfort? Why comfort if there is a pre-tribulation rapture?)



*Corinthians-1 15:51-53 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump: (This verse dates Thessalonians-1 4:13-18. This is when and only when there is anything at all like a rapture. It plainly says that it will be at the LAST trumpet angel which is at the end of tribulation on the Day of the Lord.) for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (Seventh trumpet angel; *See Revelation 10:5-7 Cross Reference below) and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.


*Revelation 10:5-7 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, (The voice of the 7th angel and the last trump are one and the same.) when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, (The angel sounds at the finish, not the beginning.) as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


Back to Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians: Paul’s next letter to them is answering some apparent question they had. He writes on the same subject but as in 1st Thessalonians because some seemed concerned when the Lord returns. The word gets back to Paul and he has to elaborate on what he was telling them before. Now lets take up at the first of the explanation.


Thessalonians-2 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.( He is saying to just stay calm.) Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (The antichrist must be revealed first, and when does that happen? According to Daniel, and Yeshua quotes Daniel, it is not until THE MIDST OF THE WEEK… The midst of the seven years of tribulation.)


Thessalonians-2 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion (What kind of a delusion? It is possible that it is a pre-tribulation theory?), that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


WHAT JOHN WRITES IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION

Now lets look at some verses right out of Revelation and again read what is actually written instead of going by what we have heard or been taught.


Revelation 7:2-4 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (Here four angels have power to hurt but are told to wait till the servants of God are sealed. If they were going to be raptured they would not need to be sealed! This means they are on the Earth and staying on it.) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (These are also called the elect in other verses. Why are they still on the earth? Is it not to be a light unto God’s people who are here too?)


Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, (If they came out of it, they were in it.) and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Revelation 13:7-9 And it was given unto him (the beast) to make war with the saints (If the saints are raptured out, how is it that the beast is making war with them?…ANSWER: No Pre Tribulation Rapture), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. (Rev. 13:7-9 says both are on the earth…some who are written the Book of Life and some who are not. If you worship the beast YOUR NAME IS NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.


Revelation 13:15 And he (the false prophet, some famous religious leader of the time) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (If only the wicked were left, who are these who would not worshiping the beast?)



Anyone who believes in a pre-trib rapture must totally disregard ALL of the preceding verses, or try to explain them away somehow, or totally ignore them altogether.



In conclusion, we also find many references teaching the meek will inherit the earth, and here are two witnesses confirming this as fact.



Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.


Matthew 5:5. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


Now, please follow along with the simple logic of this: It is written, “The meek shall inherit the earth.” Now that being said, “The Church” believes in a pre-trib rapture, and “The Church” believes they will inherit the earth. If they inherit the earth, they must also number themselves among the meek. Therefore, the last verse below binds the “The Church,” on earth along with everyone else during the Great Tribulation.


Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.


The Day of the Lord’s Anger and Armageddon are unmistakably joined together. The Day of the Lord undisputedly comes at the end of Tribulation. It comes as the seventh trumpet angel sounds “Feast of Trumpets,” also called the LAST Trump. The dead in Christ shall then rise first and we are caught up with them. Yeshua has already come to this earth once, and salvation came with Him; In His Second Coming He brings God’s wrath and Judgment to the wicked and He brings redemption to those who are His.


End of Article by DanielsTimeline.com……………


The following article is about the history of the
“Secret Rapture” and its origin


ORIGIN OF THE SECRET RAPTURE THEORY
To many it is both amazing and shocking to discover that neither the word rapture nor the doctrine/teaching of a "secret rapture" is to be found in any bible translation. Moreover, it is not even mentioned in any "Christian" literature prior to the year 1830.

Dave MacPherson, author of “The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin,” reveals that the "rapture" teaching was born in England during the mid-1800's. MacPherson's research found that a Church of Scotland minister, named Edward Irving, was the first to preach the "rapture gospel."

Just how the "rapture" theory occurred to Irving is an intriguing facet of modern churchianity's history. Irving held some eccentric positions on the use of "spiritual" gifts, including speaking in tongues and prophesying. He contended that these gifts were for the present day "church", and had quite a few followers of his radical notions. However, when chaotic disturbances arose in Irving's services during the manifestations of these "gifts", the Church of Scotland took action, dismissing Irving from his position as minister in 1832.

The ultimate result of Irving's dismissal was the formation of the Catholic Apostolic Church, which still exists until this day. Irving's movement grew and became the basis of modern day pentecostalism. The natural evolution of this movement has resulted in the recent emergence of the "Toronto Laughing Spirit" phenomenon which has seduced and mislead more than a few well-intentioned people.

However, in 1830 during one of Irving's sessions before his dismissal, a young Scottish girl, named Margaret MacDonald, fell into a "trance". After several hours of "vision" and "prophesying" she revealed that "christ's" return would occur in two phases, not just one. "Christ" would first come visibly to only the righteous, then He would come a second time to execute wrath on the unrighteous in the nations.

This "secret rapture" was promoted by Irving claiming he, too, had heard a "voice" from heaven commanding him to teach it. (Some modern researchers submit that Irving's speculations of the "rapture were influenced by the Spanish Jesuit priest, Lacunza whose book Irving had translated in 1827 under the title, The coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty)

John Darby, an Englishman and pioneer of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement became caught up in the rapture philosophies of Irving. When Darby heard about Irving's activities, he traveled to Scotland to talk with Irving and his followers about the "secret rapture". It was Darby who became the master developer of "scriptural" arguments to support the theory/doctrine that evolved.

Darby's development of the "rapture" theory has since become widely popularized in Britain and finally in the U.S., largely as a result of Cyrus Scofield's notes in his Scofield Reference Bible.

Belief in the "secret rapture" doctrine has become so widespread among today's "evangelicals" and "fundamentalists" that many sitting in the pews assume that the teaching dates back to the apostles themselves and the Messiah. Regardless of whom one regards as the originator of the teaching — whether Irving, Darby, Margaret MacDonald, or a Jesuit priest - one thing is obvious; the "secret rapture" theory is of relatively recent origin. Moreover, it has no basis in fact nor was it ever a teaching of the Messiah, Apostles, or the early movement begun by Messiah. End of Article…

CLOSING COMMENTS



It is common knowledge that modern technology is migrating toward a cashless world. News reports are being given regularly on a computer chip that will eliminate cash and credit cards all together. It is also common knowledge in tribulation buying and selling cannot be done without the Mark of the Beast, but there is a catch, if you have the Mark, you are doomed to eternal damnation.

If a religious leader told you, “Its OK to take a computer chip implant” saying, “it can’t be the Mark of the Beast because we haven’t been raptured yet,” what would you do? If there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, the issue of an implanted chip in your hand or forehead becomes an immediate life and death situation that could destroy you and your family. It is plain and simple; who ever takes the Mark of the Beast is cast into Hell. You will have doomed yourself and anyone else in your family that has taken it with you, or anyone that you have caused to take it. Would you want someone making those kinds of choices for you? It is your soul and your loved ones that are at stake. Lets all read and learn for ourself. The truth is there right before our eyes.

Hosea 4:6 “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge”

Lou said...

THE BEST RAPTURE LOCATOR

Guess what. If you can figure out when the "sudden destruction" of wicked persons takes place in I Thess. 5:3 (and also when "death" is ended in I Cor. 15:54), you will know where to place the rapture on your prophecy chart because those passages talk about the "times and seasons" (and also the "when" and "then") of the rapture. Neat, huh? And if you would like to locate the ONE article that Ice, Jeffrey, Missler, Strandberg, Lindsey, LaHaye, Van Impe, Hagee, and Swaggart don't want you to read, visit the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site and click on "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" !

ParisH said...

I do like ur article~!!! ........................................